HEAL with Dr. Bob Schuchts of the John Paul II Healing Center
“HEAL” with dr. Bob Schuchts
“Healing happens organically as love is being expressed,” says Dr. Bob Schuchts of the John Paul II Healing Center
In this mini-retreat in a podcast, Dr. Bob shares how important it is to listen and be attentive to what spiritual practices the Holy Spirit is drawing you to this Lent--so the Divine Physician can bless you with healing.
As we look at our patterns of sin and chronic wounds we have carried with us for a long time, we must remember God sees us in our wholeness. And remember that we cannot fix our own brokenness; however, we can name it and bring it to Jesus for healing.
Dr. Bob shares stories, including when he had a panic attack and realized his own need for healing. As Dr. Bob engaged in the healing process, he learned that beneath his anxiety was abandonment from his parents’ divorce. The pain in his heart began to heal through the love of God and he forgave his parents. Healing is a life-long journey that we all need to engage in.
Pope Benedict XVI said, “Whoever truly wishes to heal man must see him in his wholeness and must know that his ultimate healing can only be God’s love.”
May we bring all of ourselves to God this Lent, to discover the healing touch of The One who loves us completely.
Learn more about Dr. Bob Schuchts, the John Paul II Healing Center and more opportunities for healing at https://jpiihealingcenter.org.
TRANSCRIPT:
Lindy Wynne (00:01.161)
Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone, welcome. Welcome to the seventh season of this mini retreat in a podcast, Mamas in Spirit. And I almost felt a little emotional starting because I feel like this first podcast is a profound reflection of God's generosity and God's goodness.
I was just talking to Dr. Bob Schuchts Dr. Bob, thank you so much for joining us.
Bob (00:36.076)
It's pleasure to be with you, Lindy Thank you.
Lindy Wynne (00:39.352)
Well, and I know you know, Dr. Bob, for all of us and all of us gathered, we're on a healing journey. And when I started Mamas in Spirit seven years ago, it was just a tiny mustard seed planted in my heart. And I think that God has blessed me the most through Mamas in Spirit and sitting with all these beautiful souls who love God so fully and so deeply. And I've been on my own healing journey in my own lifetime. And Dr. Bob,
As you gather with us today, something that you wrote in, I believe it was in Be Healed, one of your numerous titles that are so incredibly helpful. You talked about always needing healing ourselves and that really it's a lifelong pilgrimage and it's a lifelong journey, hopefully into the Sacred Heart of Jesus eternally. So this Lent, what came to me after recording, I think four other podcasts for this Lenten series, they are just all so profoundly moving, is HEAL
That is the simple title of this Lenten series and the start of the season because that's the deepest longing of our hearts because like Dr. Bob talks about is that love is healing and we all most deeply desire love. So as we gather here today, Dr. Bob, I would love for you to open us in prayer.
Bob (01:44.347)
Yes.
Bob (01:54.222)
I'm glad to thank you, Lindy. In the of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen.
Bob (02:03.611)
Father, I thank you that you not only are love, but that your love is overflowing through Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, through the Church, and through our individual lives, the body of Christ. And I just pray as we speak and share that your Holy Spirit would just go out to every person who's listening.
And I pray that in communion with Jesus you will bring each one into the communion of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Trinity.
Bob (02:46.821)
that you will bring each person into that place of rest and trust and receptivity.
I also pray for encouragement and wisdom that you, Lord, will speak gems of wisdom, whether it's through us or just internally in the hearts of each one, things that you want them to know.
Bob (03:15.889)
And we ask the intercession of St. John Paul II and Blessed Mother and St. Joseph.
all this in and through Jesus. Amen. In the of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, amen.
Lindy Wynne (03:29.479)
Amen. Thank you, Dr. Bob for that beautiful prayer. I always hold something in my hands. Usually it's a chaplet of divine mercy that my beautiful girlfriend in heaven, Carolyn Henry Dreffel gave me. She said a yes to doing Mamas in Spirit with me and then went home eternally with our Lord. But really briefly, when I went to visit her grave site, there was like a little hole where she'd been buried. And I reached down and I found this blue gem.
Bob (03:44.721)
Yeah.
Bob (03:57.424)
Wow, wow, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lindy Wynne (03:58.172)
Yes, Mary Blue, she had a great devotion to Mary. So when you said gems of wisdom, I thought, my goodness, that was providential that I felt moved to, to grab that gem. So Dr. Bob, we chatted a couple minutes before we started. And it's interesting because in the beginning of Be Healed, you talked about how you moved really from your mind and thought into your heart with the Lord and that surrender and that healing that's come from that.
Bob (04:06.619)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (04:26.616)
And so I would love for us to dive deeply into love and to love as healing because like I was telling Dr. Bob, we come, we're an adoptive family and I haven't articulated this much before, but Dr. Bob, I feel like you, you will be able to speak to this, that when we adopted our children, I was and also am broken too. And in adopting them and I'll speak first to the six and three year old from foster care, like they were so broken.
Yet I had my own brokenness and then my husband and I have our own brokenness and then our family does too. And the mere act of like choosing to love by the grace of God has been the greatest healing agent of my life. And I've seen like the ripple effects of that single act of love by the grace of God and the healing in it. And like people will say, the children are so blessed. And I'll say, no, like I'm so blessed because I've come to know
Bob (04:56.261)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (05:25.639)
in the touch of my heart and soul love more fully. And so I'd love for you to speak to that, to love and to love as healing from our divine physician and our need to continue to return really to the well of living water to continue to be healed in our lifetimes.
Bob (05:28.718)
Yeah.
Bob (05:44.656)
Yeah, that's beautiful, Lindy. And I think that's so true that we don't only, we not only heal from being loved, but we heal from loving. Right? I mean, it's, it's like the whole gospel message is being loved, God first loved us, and then loving God and loving the people closest to us and even the enemies. And every single part of that heals us. And we...
We use a definition in the Ministry of Healing that I really spend a lot of time thinking about, and it was after a quote from Pope Benedict XVI. And he said, anyone who wishes to heal man must see them in their wholeness and must know that their only healing could be God's love. Right? And so there's two pieces in that. There's the goal of
healing which is wholeness, right? And the means of healing which is God's love, you know? And God is love and so all love is God's love, all genuine love is God's love. And so we developed a more of a practical application of that which is healing is an ongoing encounter with God's love that brings us into wholeness and communion.
And so we think about wholeness. Wholeness is something we talk about in terms of our own body, soul, and spirit. You know, how God created us and what He has envisioned for us in heaven. And so God always sees us in our wholeness. Right? Because He created us, before He created us, He saw us. And He sees us in the end, in our fullness. And so as He sees us in our wholeness,
He doesn't define us by our sin or by our wounds or anything else. He just sees us, sees us in perfection. Right? He certainly is with us in the places of our brokenness. He has his mercy and his compassion, but he sees the wholeness of who we are. And when he sees the wholeness, it's not hard for him then to love us into fullness, into the fullness of his communion.
Bob (08:08.805)
Brokenness is not just what happens to us individually, but brokenness is broken communion. It's broken relationship. And in fact, those two things go hand in hand. It's the interior wounds or reflections of external brokenness and communion and brokenness of love. And as God heals, as we become more whole, we grow in communion with God and with each other, but also the people around us.
grow in communion as you're describing through the love that we give and then they grow in wholeness through that communion and so it's a reciprocal process of love and being loved and as you said it just healing happens organically as love is being expressed.
Lindy Wynne (08:57.426)
Yes, that's so beautiful and so true. And I'm wondering, I'm thinking about, you know, all of these guests that are about to come in this Lenten series and the stories that they share, because I know that they're stories that also reflect the stories of everyone gathered here today, yet also just like the grappling of life and the struggle of life. Like this is Lent, I think of Jesus's passion and how we have our own small p passions in our lives and
and how it's easier and sometimes to pull away from God's love or from communion with one another too, like that wholeness, that oneness with God, and then also that oneness with one another and then our internal experience, like how we perceive ourselves and how we don't see ourselves as whole as God does. And so I wonder, Dr. Bob, how do you encourage us as we enter into
Bob (09:47.569)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (09:55.015)
this time of Lent to bring ourselves fully to the Lord for God's healing, regardless of what's going on in our lives, like our circumstances, our relationships within ourselves. Like how do you encourage us to go to the divine physician?
Bob (10:14.693)
Yeah, I think it's going to be individual for each person as the spirit leads. But I would say, too many of us, me included, think of a project that we're going to do for Lent rather than being open to the process that God has in mind for us in Lent. Sometimes those things can go hand in hand, but sometimes our projects for Lent, our disciplines for Lent can be
almost an ungodly self-reliance of this is what I'm going to do for my Lent rather than that sensitivity to the Holy Spirit of the Holy Spirit saying this is what I'm calling you for this is what I'm working on in you this Lent and and it can be involved in those disciplines in fact those disciplines are all healing I'm thinking of a book by Sister Miriam written for Lent which takes each of those disciplines and
brings them into a framework. But what is the Holy Spirit saying to each person? And God is always, I believe, in the process of healing. And so it's where are we in that process? Like where?
Because God is always loving. And so where are we, as you're describing, we can pull away from love, we can pull away from communion. And we do that to protect ourselves from the hurt that we've experienced. You we create barriers around our heart. And so it's bringing those barriers, as much as we're able to, into communion. Which sounds strange. It's the very areas of our life that we can't have communion because we're...
guarding against it. It's naming those things and then bringing those to Jesus, recognizing that we can't fix it. I think one of the things that Lent teaches us from the very beginning, you when we get the ashes and it's, you are dust and to a dust you will return, is recognizing our poverty, you know, recognizing our incapacities to redeem ourselves, to save ourselves.
Bob (12:29.561)
And so for many of us, we have these areas of chronic sin, these patterns of sin, whatever they may be, usually one of the seven deadly sins. And we have these chronic wounds that have been with us for a long time. And we work on them and we pray about them. And then we're frustrated because we don't see the change happening in our life quickly enough or...
fully enough in that way. And so that brings us back to our spiritual poverty. In recent book, I just wrote a whole chapter on this. that spiritual poverty is the opposite of pride and it's the gateway to humility. And it's in humility that we receive. But our pride is really a protection.
I'm not saying it's good protection. I'm saying it's what we do to protect ourselves and put a vision of ourselves to ourselves and to the people around us of what we want them to see rather than what's really going on inside of us. And so the more we can, in humility and spiritual poverty, bring the places of ourselves that we don't want anybody to see and we don't want God to see and we don't want to look at,
the more healing can take place. Not with the idea that we're going to make it better, but with the idea that we're going to bring it to God because it's only love that heals.
Lindy Wynne (14:10.469)
Yes, that's so beautiful. Could you share with us, Dr. Bob, a time in your life where you've experienced this? Because I know that we can only give what we have received and you do such beautiful witnessing, your own testimony and story in your works. Could you share with us a time that you've experienced this?
Bob (14:30.543)
Yeah, there's so many times, but I'll go back to kind of early on in my discovery of my need for healing. And I was married, I'd been married several years, Margie and I were married several years and had our daughters, which were, they were just in preschool, moving into school age. So I think they were probably eight and six. So about 40 years ago.
I went to a Bible study to a next door neighbor and there were two scriptures that I felt like Jesus was speaking directly to me as they were being shared. And one of them was, are neither hot nor cold and I will spit you out of my mouth. Which didn't sound like love. It felt like rejection. It felt like judgment. And it created a lot of anxiety.
tremendous amount of anxiety in me. Because I realized in that moment that I was trying to play the middle, the safe middle in my life so that nobody around me would think that I was being extreme in my faith and nobody would reject me and particularly that my wife wouldn't think I was being fanatical if I really gave myself wholeheartedly to Jesus. So that was...
the initial anxiety. Then the second scripture was John 15, which is, am the vine, you are the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing. And what that confronted in my life was my ungodly self-reliance. How much I'd living my life and my faith out of my own strength. And Jesus just saying, it doesn't bear any fruit. There's no fruit to everything you're doing in your own strength.
Well, between the two of those things, I went home that night and I had a panic attack. You know, sometimes when we have panic attacks, it's like, well, the event must have been a bad event if it created that. It couldn't have been Jesus. But the truth is the panic was the places of pain that were starting to come up inside of my heart that I'd buried for so long. And it was really the group.
Bob (16:54.149)
gift of the Holy Spirit to take me out of my own control, having things together. And my panic was I was still trying to control all of that fear and anxiety. Right? That's the nature of a panic is we're trying to get in control and we feel out of control and our hearts beating and our minds racing. And so it was a terrifying moment, but it was a moment that I realized for the first time that I needed healing, that I needed help.
And I went, first of all, to therapy. I'd been a therapist up until that point, but I went to therapy wanting to heal that panic attack. But the panic attack was only a symptom. And what was underneath that was all the abandonment pain of my parents' divorce and separation. I had no idea that all that pain was still there. I mean, I had ways in which I could now look back and see what was playing out in my life, but I...
I had no idea that that was underneath this panic attack. And so I could look back after the walk through and really, was really several years later where I had a profound healing of that deeper pain of abandonment and could really forgive my parents, forgive my dad, and feel God's love. You know, I talk about all that and be healed. But that took a while. It wasn't...
One day I have this experience and the next day everything's healed. No, that was a journey and it's still a journey, but it was in terms of those particular wounds that took several years of really praying and being open and getting help and looking at areas of my life.
Lindy Wynne (18:41.956)
Yes, thank you so much for sharing that. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that your dad left and you didn't see him for a couple years. And then your brother, also your older brother, an addiction began for him.
Bob (18:51.259)
Correct,
Bob (18:58.575)
Yes, heroin addiction. And so we would see him off and on. But he was usually either high or in desperation to get high again when we saw him. And he was my childhood playmate. My dad was also, I was very close to my dad too. So both of those were really painful.
Lindy Wynne (19:19.97)
Yes, and so sudden. Like I think of the trauma and the unexpectedness of it all, because my understanding is that before that, things were very stable, overarchingly. I mean, family life, but very stable.
Bob (19:30.043)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was a year that they started to erode beforehand, but prior to that, yeah, it was very stable from my standpoint, from what I was experiencing.
Lindy Wynne (19:44.899)
Yes, thank you so much for sharing that. And just to kind of illustrate maybe even a little bit more what you're speaking to. So my parents are also divorced, Dr. Bob, and they separated when I was about 19 years old. But the erosion of their marriage, I would say, happened over most of it. And I've had beautiful healing with my dad. My dad left suddenly. I was out of town with friends, a friend's family.
Bob (20:03.451)
Hmm.
Lindy Wynne (20:13.334)
and I called home and my younger brother was sobbing. And my dad had secretly rented an apartment and he moved out. just also for the sake of vulnerability for everyone listening, because Dr. Bob, this is on my heart. I love that you speak to the fact that anybody, know, none of us are the savior. We just love the Lord and have been given, hopefully, and graced with beautiful healing and other things of the sort that God calls us, hopefully, to.
Bob (20:15.856)
Mm.
Lindy Wynne (20:41.591)
to share for all of us here gathered. And so for me, it surprised me, Dr. Bob, because a memory came back to me that I needed healing for. I'm 48 years old. That happened when I was 19. And a memory came back not that long ago. It was probably about three or four months ago. And I didn't realize that that memory, I was still holding on to hurt and pain and that feeling of abandonment and that fear of abandonment. But really quickly,
Bob (21:09.521)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (21:11.072)
It was a Christmas and it was before my dad ever left and he got really upset with me and I'm sure that I was behaving in a way that was questionable as a teenager. I'm sure I had a sharp tongue or something else. I'm sure I a role in this is what I'm saying. And my dad got in the car to leave on like a Christmas Eve from our home because he was so upset with me. And I cried about that. I mean, I really like.
Bob (21:25.125)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (21:37.985)
The whole thing came back to me recently and I did not even realize that I was carrying that and that's not even when my dad left. Yet that memory carried more weight probably because it received such a little attention from me and my heart and I really did need to bring it to the divine physician for healing. And like I said, it's all these years later.
Bob (21:45.841)
Mm-hmm.
Bob (21:51.428)
Mm-hmm.
Bob (21:58.086)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that keeps happening in our life as we heal, then more places come up for healing. And so you dealt with the bigger areas before. And then this one happened before it. And so it's even more sensitive and deeper, in a sense, from what you described. And, you know, there's two things, as I heard you describe it, there's two things. One is...
the self-blame like this was at least partly my fault for how I spoke and again we do need to take responsibility for our behavior but you're not responsible for his behavior right like him leaving hurts you he didn't tend to your heart in the place where you were right and and yet Jesus
Lindy Wynne (22:44.675)
Mm-hmm.
Bob (22:55.651)
As you invited him, the divine physician, there, he doesn't look at what you did, to start with. He looks at what happened in your heart, and the brokenness of the love, and becomes a father to you there. know, so much of our trauma is that nobody sees the pain that we're in, because they're in their own pain. And so Jesus coming to you and...
being with you, not that he came to you, he's with you, but you being able to bring that to him and him seeing you there, he doesn't have any judgment whatsoever towards you about what you did or didn't do, he just has a love for the place of your heart that wanted your dad to meet you there and your dad left and the rejection that you felt and the guilt that you felt and the shame that you felt.
and to minister to all of those places and the self-blame in that and the powerlessness. know, so often times we blame ourselves when we feel powerless. Like, if I would have only done that or if I wouldn't have done that. And again, there's a time for our repentance. And that's a healing in itself. But not to confuse it with the places where our hearts are wounded. You know, not to say, I deserve this because we never deserve
the lack of love. We never deserve people's choices that aren't love. It's always their responsibility and our responsibility of our choices where we don't love.
Lindy Wynne (24:36.619)
We never deserve a lack of love.
Lindy Wynne (24:43.265)
It's really beautiful. It's very healing.
Dr. Bob, when you speak to me, I feel like I'm being healed. It's a healing experience and is very beautiful. It's very, very beautiful. And...
Bob (24:53.681)
Hmm.
Praise God.
Lindy Wynne (25:03.591)
I imagine that all of us here gathered, like we talk and you spoke about communion and we see the Eucharist, Holy Communion is the pinnacle of our faith and yet you're also just speaking to the intimacy that God desires to have with us. Like we talk about how Jesus says, I thirst and then St. Augustine says that our hearts are restless until they rest in thee, O Lord. So that completeness of love
that completeness of that communion, being the deepest longing of our hearts.
Lindy Wynne (25:40.201)
You just ministered to me and reflected the divine physician to me. I imagine all of us gathered. We all need that. How would you encourage us? Like we all might not be able to go to the JP to healing center. We may need to be able to read, you know, be transformed or be healed or you have Latin resources. We're going to talk about to like trusting our father's provision. How would
would you encourage us in our prayer life? Because Dr. Bob, for me, I feel like so much of my healing has happened in the intimate silence with the Lord, like in that intimacy. I discovered God as a nine-year-old girl by the water I was not raised in a religious home. And like God is that good and that generous. How would you encourage us? You prayed for encouragement when we started. How would you encourage
Bob (26:24.497)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (26:38.464)
adjusting that.
Bob (26:41.221)
Yeah, that's a great question. It is in the interior of our heart. And for different ones of us, it happens relationally. It happens relationally for all of us, but sometimes it's mediated through a relationship with somebody. And sometimes it's just directly with Jesus. Or directly with the Holy Family, with Mary and Joseph, or with the Trinity, or in Adoration, or in communion. And so it's...
where and how can be very individual. But the part that we play in that is just being open to the movements of the Holy Spirit in that moment, bringing things. You know, I love Jesus' statement to the disciples, I will send you the Spirit of Truth and He will lead you into all truth, but you couldn't bear it now. Right? You couldn't bear all the truth now. I heard somebody say, what if you were to eat
If you were to have all the meals that you're going to eat for the rest of your life put in front of you right now and you had to eat them all, at what point would you lose your appetite? As soon as you're told you had to eat it all, but you know, after you had the first couple of you, they really look good. And that would be something that we would like, you know, we'd like all that food, but it's got to be spread out over time. We want healing, but it's got to be spread out over time.
and in His gentleness, God doesn't bring it. Sometimes we get frustrated, I'm not healing quick enough. It's because we're not safe enough. Our heart isn't safe enough. And so it's, first of all, love is patient, being patient with ourselves, and love is kind, being kind to ourselves. Because Jesus is patient with us and Jesus is kind with us. Jesus is not rude to us. Jesus is not insistent on His way.
He's present with us. And so when we internalize that love, that patience, that kindness, that goodness, that faithfulness, that gentleness.
Bob (28:49.745)
towards ourselves, then we allow our hearts to go at a pace that it's ready to go on to rather than our own internal demands. And it's because we're hurting, our internal demands because we want to get rid of the hurt. And so it's natural that we want to be free. That's good motivation. But the process is one of patience.
Lindy Wynne (29:17.663)
Bless you. Yes, that's so helpful. And I know even in my own journey that accepting that healing is always until we're hopefully with God forever is very helpful to my heart. And I love what you're sharing about practicing love with ourselves, practicing compassion with ourselves, practicing patience.
with ourselves. Dr. Bob, you have worked with so many different people. And I know you talk about some of them in your works and long term healing. People who are facing things that are very, very difficult that take a long time to heal. And you talk about things like depression. Is there a story that you could share of working with someone?
where obviously like we just talked about that they didn't come to the fullness. That's a lifetime thing, hopefully for God to be with God forever. But where you've just witnessed like profound healing in someone and what that experience was like.
Bob (30:32.337)
Yeah, there's so many stories, but one I love to tell because it has so many layers to it is a story I talk about in Real Suffering, my book Real Suffering. And it's a guy by the name of, I call him Patrick. It's not his real name, but I call him Patrick in the book. And he came to a conference to be with his wife who was sent by her pastor to come to a conference.
He didn't want to be there and he had been suffering from depression for over 40 years. depression was so debilitating he'd gone through hospitalization several times. had lost his work. He couldn't work anymore. He could barely function as a husband and as a father. He was just surviving. And so he had been through all kinds of hospitalization and treatments and everything. So medications. And he didn't expect to get much.
the weekend but the first night we were doing a prayer experience and in the prayer experience just like you described Jesus brought him back to a memory and the memory was him as a 12 year old boy and as a child 12 year old boy he was riding his bike with his brother when a friend of his stopped him and called him up to the house and showed him pornography and that made him late to get home
And when he got home his mother said, father's out looking for him and this dread filled his heart. This is all happening in the memory. And he didn't remember all this but this is like when it's being brought to him it's like wow yes this is all totally what happened. And he said he was surprised when his dad got home that his dad didn't seem mad. And he just said I want to see each of you sons one by one.
upstairs. he brought the first younger son up and the younger son told the truth. And then he brought the older son up and the older son lied because he was afraid of how his father would react. And his father took out a belt and beat him to a pulp. Just beat him mercilessly. And then in this memory he remembers his father going in and throwing up in the bathroom.
Bob (33:02.075)
So in the middle of that memory.
I guess in the prayer experience we're inviting people to ask Jesus where he is. And so he asked Jesus if he could show him where he is in that memory. And Jesus is walking towards his dad. Before his dad throws up. This is like right after his dad had beaten him. He's walking towards his dad. And the middle of this, Patrick gets so angry at Jesus.
for going to his dad rather than to him. Which brought up a lot of the roots of the depression with all of Patrick's anger towards God and towards his dad and towards himself. And so all this anger is coming up.
He's noticing Jesus's eyes of compassion for his father.
And it's like, is not right. He's hurt me. Why are you going to him? And in the midst of it, Jesus touches his father's shoulder.
Bob (34:15.077)
with that look of love and compassion. And as soon as Patrick experienced that, seeing Jesus do that, he forgave his father from his heart for the first time in his life. Just watching Jesus' love and forgiveness and compassion allowed him to forgive his father and recognize his father was suffering.
Bob (34:38.929)
And then Jesus came to Patrick as a 12 year old and held him in comfort and he just cried. Well the next morning, this was at night, the next day Patrick came to me and he says, I don't know, he shared the experience, he says, I don't know what happened but I feel different. My depression has lifted and I haven't felt this way. You know, never like this. But even when I've had
some treatment, just a little bit. He says, I don't know what to do with this. I said, well, just keep praying with it all weekend and come up and let me know. When he came up and let me know, he said, it's still free. One month later, reached out, still free. The pastor asked him and his wife to start a healing ministry at their church. And they did. And they prayed with many, many people. And they began to see this healing taking place for so many people. And in the middle of that, he told...
his parents who lived in another country that he had been received healing and he was back doing this ministry and this was now his job and what a difference it would make and that he'd praying for other people and his dad said to him when you come to visit next time I want you to pray with me and Patrick kind of took back like no that's too threatening you know so they go to visit and Patrick was avoiding
what his dad had said. But his dad at the very end said, when are going to pray with me? So I was like, okay. So he goes to pray with his dad and never shared a thing about what his healing was. Didn't share anything about it with his dad, just that he had been healed. And so when he prayed with his dad, his dad was brought back to that same memory that Patrick had.
And he saw Jesus do the same thing. Well, first of all, when he brought back to that memory, he opened his eyes and he stopped and he said, he was like terrified. He said, son, you may not remember this, but when you were 12, I did this to you. And that's what I'm seeing right now when we prayed. And I hope you can forgive me. I've never been able to forgive myself. And Patrick, just this...
Bob (37:04.955)
joy and this being so touched. He said, Dad, that's exactly the memory that Jesus healed of me of. And that's what happened is he, saw Jesus forgive you and he loved you. He wanted you to forgive yourself. Can we go back into that memory? And the same thing happened.
for his dad. His dad saw Jesus come to him the way that Patrick had seen it. So he's describing this and it's really validating for Patrick the reality of what had happened. Now it's happening again in his dad's prayer the same way it happened in Patrick's prayer. And they're both crying. And he hadn't seen his dad cry. And he hadn't cried in front of his dad.
Patrick said, Dad, I think there's more. Let's go, let's pray. Let's ask Jesus if there's more. And then his dad was brought back to when he was 12. And his dad had beaten him that way. And Jesus then began to heal his wounds as a 12 year old and the wounds before that. I just love that story because it's so many layers and it's so validating of the heart that Jesus has for all of us whether we're the one.
who's caused the hurt or the one we've been hurt and how he heals the generations of the family. I had an opportunity to pray for my dad for four hours one time and go through his whole life. And I just loved watching Jesus minister to his heart in all of those broken places that he had had. And I realized that my heart was very much like my dad. I just made different choices than he made. But that I could understand his heart.
deeply when I could hear what he was going through and the reasons why he made some of the choices that he made. I could understand and have compassion for him.
Lindy Wynne (39:03.406)
Thank you so much for sharing all of that, both that story and then also with your own father. And is that something that you do a lot is have people in their healing, imagine Jesus in that memory?
Bob (39:17.401)
Yeah, I say to them, Jesus promised that he's always present. But our trauma can block us from being able to experience his presence. So when you go to that memory, don't go there alone. Ask Jesus where he is, what he wants you to know.
Lindy Wynne (39:37.294)
really beautiful. And while I was listening to you, that memory came back to me of me with my own father. And I imagined us in the places and spaces that we were outside the home when my dad was going to leave. And I'm on the front porch and he's in his white Acura. And I imagined Jesus's arms one outstretched to each of us. And
Bob (39:43.953)
Bob (39:58.951)
huh.
Lindy Wynne (40:05.42)
is almost like supernatural because we were too far apart, but obviously like filled with light and
Bob (40:07.437)
huh.
Lindy Wynne (40:14.33)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, that's so beautiful. And it brings me back to when we were talking about communion, because Christ is love, and that's what binds me and my father. And that's what binds us to our Holy Father and to all relationships in love and in wholeness.
Bob (40:27.526)
Bob (40:31.622)
Yeah.
Bob (40:35.793)
huh.
Bob (40:40.517)
Yes.
Yes. That's why we need all the Sacraments, because the Sacraments are those arms that bring us together when sin separates us.
Lindy Wynne (40:54.679)
Yes, I've shared this so many times before, Dr. Bob. just feel, oftentimes I feel like when I was baptized, the priest called me little Lindy. It was very endearing. And I was in my early twenties when I was baptized. And I feel so small and like God calls me into these big things. Like even recording with you. And yes.
Bob (41:18.673)
We're all small. And if you notice, all the apparitions are to people who were little.
Lindy Wynne (41:26.297)
That's a that's so beautiful. That is, that is so beautiful. And I love how you say that we're all small. Because I hope that that consoles everyone's hearts, who are gathered, like it consoles my heart. And that they're really there is the one divine physician, Jesus and that how beautiful that's such a beautiful invitation for us this light to go to these memories and safe places and maybe was safe.
human, safe people, and to go there with Jesus, to go to Adoration, or to go sit in the quiet of your church. I've had people talk before in Mama's in Spirit about the little candle right by Jesus in the quiet of the church, the little red candle that shows that Jesus is there when it's lit, and just to sit in the quiet of church. That's what drew me when I was a teenager and I got my driver's license. I would start going to
Bob (41:57.392)
Yeah.
Bob (42:05.584)
Yeah.
Bob (42:14.319)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (42:24.982)
And it was a very tumultuous time in my life, also because of my own choices as well, that God saw me in my wholeness. I hear you, Dr. Woff. But I would go to these churches and I would sit in there. like I said, I wasn't raised. I did have some exposure to the Catholic Church as a child. But I would sit in there in the quiet of the church with Jesus.
Bob (42:31.953)
Amen.
Bob (42:51.311)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (42:51.328)
And so this is a beautiful invitation for us. I have one more question for you. So Dr. Bob, you revealed to me before we started recording that I'm the same age as one of your daughters. I'm 48 and your other daughter is a couple of years younger. You have lots of daughters here gathered and some sons, spiritual sons and daughters. And so thinking of your daughters,
and all of us here. If you were to encourage our hearts, just right now, I know it's Lent and it's the start of Lent, but just in general, in life and in this pilgrimage of the soul, this pilgrimage of the heart until hopefully we're all together eternally, what would you say?
Bob (43:43.506)
There's so much I could say. Let me just say related to Lent. Think of Lent as the time when we remove the barriers so that we can be loved. Like spend your Lent that way. Spend your Lent that whatever you do, whether it's fasting, almsgiving, prayer...
loving the people around you, working on your healing, going to Confession receiving the Sacraments going to Adoration whatever that is, it's an opportunity to be loved. It's an opportunity to know your belovedness. Right? That's two things. One is we are loved but we don't know our belovedness.
and to be able to rest in it. You don't have to earn it through the Lenten practices. Like, that's not earning love. The Lenten practices are giving and receiving love. And to spend Lent that way, but not just Lent, but that be a way of living life every day.
Lindy Wynne (44:59.101)
Amen. So glorious. Thank you, Dr. Bob. Dr. Bob, can you share with us? I know we talked about some Lenten resources that you have available to us. I believe that one, the healing one is coming out during Lent. But if you could talk a little bit about that and then also how everybody can get more connected with your works and the JP2 Healing Center.
Bob (45:25.007)
Okay. So the book on healing prayers is a lot of what we were talking about is all these different prayers that we have used in our conferences that we put in a little small booklet that can be put in a brevary or put in a purse or put anywhere, back pocket even, and that you can carry with you in prayer, particularly, you know, times when you're going to a prayer or Adoration or before you go to bed at night and it's
the prayers we use in the conferences that have been really powerful in the lives of people and the prayers I used with people when I was working with them over years. And so the prayers aren't magic, but the prayers are ways of directing our hearts to the healer, to the divine physician and ways to specifically address certain things that we may not be aware of that need to be addressed. The barriers to our hearts, the...
the identity lies that we hold on to, the process we described of praying down into the wounds and inviting Jesus there. So all that forgiveness, detailed forgiveness prayer, it's all in that booklet. The other resource is called Trusting Our Father's Provision. And it's the first book of what I hope to be a series all about trusting the Father because that's the heart of our healing is in trust.
And I think provision is one of the tangible ways that we can look at our lives and say, am I trusting or am I not trusting? I have a lot of incredible stories there of other people's witness and then my own experience and my own testing of faith and growing in faith. And so the whole first part of the book is about growing in trust and the whole second part of the book is about becoming faithful and prudent stewards. And so...
In terms of Lent, the almsgiving part is connected to being good stewards of our time, talent, and treasure. But I go into pretty good depth of being able to examine that in your life and how to live that out. But in the first part, it could be used as a Bible study during Lent. And it's really growing in prayer, growing in trust with the Father. And a lot of stories that help build that up.
Bob (47:50.534)
terms of getting in touch with the ministry you can go to jp2healingcenter.org we have all kind of resources conferences we have virtual healing conferences that people can watch individually or as groups we have individual talks that people can download workbooks books there's a tremendous amount of resources there and they're all designed to help people
walk through the healing process. And then our podcast is Restoring the Glory podcast. And we have a lot of the aspects that we describe in the conferences on the podcast. And so those are available for everybody for free.
Lindy Wynne (48:34.752)
Wonderful so many gems of wisdom going back to the beginning of the this mini retreat in a podcast and I am looking forward to getting both of those Lenten resources. Well the one that's the prayers and then also trusting our Father's provision myself. Thank you so much. Dr. Bob. I'm so grateful for your time and the biggest thing that came to my heart actually before we recorded and then now here at the end is
Bob (48:52.049)
Thank you, Linda.
Lindy Wynne (49:04.115)
So in my lifetime, there have been a few men that have really been mentors to me, like fatherly mentors, and you speak and be healed about teachers. And my senior year of high school in secular high school, my math teacher had a profound and continues to have a profound impact on my life. You can pray for him. He's in his 90s, Mr. B. Yeah, wonderful man that I'm hoping to see soon.
Bob (49:24.581)
Yeah. Wow. Wow.
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (49:30.693)
And there's been a couple others too, but before we recorded, I thought here feels like a mentor teacher that I've never met. So I want to thank you. I feel graced and blessed by this time with you and for all of us, it truly is a blessing beyond measure.
Bob (49:38.875)
Yeah.
Bob (49:48.082)
Thank you, Lindy. That touches my heart. And I pray abundant blessings. I can see why you related to Be Healed, because we had similar experiences. Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (49:58.535)
Yes, yes, and I encourage everyone to look into all of your books and be healed is a wonderful place also to start for everybody gathered. So Dr. Bob will you please close us in prayer?
Bob (50:07.471)
Yeah, that good.
Bob (50:11.665)
Yeah.
Father, again, I just ask you to meet the hearts of every person here. Whatever's come up in these conversations, I just pray that you would reveal your presence, that they could know intimately the depths of your love, and that you would begin to speak into those deep places, that they are your beloved daughters.
and the ones that the men that are your beloved sons.
And Lord, may it penetrate more deeply than ever this Lent.
We ask all this and enter Jesus. Amen.
Lindy Wynne (50:59.79)
Amen. In the of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. Thank you again, Dr. Bob. And thank you, everyone, for gathering. It is a delight of my heart to be back together. And like I said, I've already recorded a number of the Lenten podcasts, and they are just treasures because the soul's sharing our treasures. And so I hope you know that we are in communion together with Christ and one another in this beloved community and beyond.
Bob (51:04.077)
Amen. Thank you.
Lindy Wynne (51:27.528)
and this sisterhood and brotherhood in Christ. And so it truly is a blessing to be with you. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.