Honestly Healing with Brya Hanan of Hanan Hope and Healing
Honesty leads us to deeper healing—and ultimately to a greater ability to love and be loved.
In this Lenten Podcast with Brya Hanan, LMFT, discover how Lent is the perfect time to experience the healing touch of God.
Brya experienced trauma as a child that left her feeling that there was something wrong with her--she just wasn't enough.
When Brya's mom and stepfather started exploring Catholicism, God’s grace simultaneously began pouring in.
A single moment in Adoration changed Brya's life. Jesus invited Brya into a personal relationship.
Hear how Brya continued to experience the healing touch of the Divine Physician through therapy and her Catholic faith.
Like Brya, sit in Christ's presence and know you are His beloved daughter.
Brya is the author of Befriending your Inner Child: A Catholic Approach to Healing and Wholeness.
Transcript:
Lindy Wynne (00:01.608)
Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone and welcome to this mini retreat and a podcast for our Lenten series. What a profoundly meaningful series it has been as all of these different guests have really opened up their hearts and their lives. So hopefully we can be touched by the grace and the goodness of
God and receive His holy healing, the healing that only the divine physician can provide. And it is a delight to my heart to be here today with Brya Hanan Brya, thank you for joining us.
Brya Hanan (00:43.0)
thank you so much for having me.
Lindy Wynne (00:45.619)
This is like double time celebratory, which is so not Lenten. But that's the thing is always about Easter Sunday at the end of the day. I always in every mini retreat and a podcast, there is a point that I like fall in love with a guest. Like that's the beautiful thing about the gift of life and that we're each molded and shaped by the Lord and we're each a gift is that when we share ourselves fully, love grows.
Brya Hanan (00:50.838)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (01:14.599)
because we're really experiencing God who is love itself. Yet today with Brya, this is someone I already love very much and I have known for a very long time. And we reconnected probably about a year ago, maybe Brya or so from now, but Brya was a student when I worked in campus ministry at Loyola Marymount University.
Brya Hanan (01:38.114)
Yes.
Lindy Wynne (01:41.028)
And yet here you are a licensed marriage and family therapist married with two and this is the second Easter part. Number three is could come at any time. Hopefully not during this podcast, but that would be really exciting if you had to leave for that.
Brya Hanan (01:45.4)
Yes.
Brya Hanan (01:52.045)
Yes.
Lindy Wynne (02:01.594)
I would be very excited. And so I prayed for us before we started and Brya, one of the things I prayed about that I wanna share with everyone listening is when we see each other as sisters in Christ and we really know that deep intimate tie, age dissipates. Like the seasons of life dissipate and we hear and witness the Lord in one another. And Brya has blessed me.
with such wisdom and such goodness and really just, the gift of who you are. And so I am so excited to share that with everyone. And Brya is also professionally is doing such beautiful healing work, Christ-centered healing work by the grace of God. And she has a beautiful book, Befriending Your Inner Child, A Catholic Approach to Healing and Wholeness. So you can go to Hannon Hope and Healing to learn more about that.
So, Brya, before we get into your story and you witness and share for us, let us open in prayer in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. Come Holy Spirit.
God, you are so good to bring us together in our love for you. That is a refuge in and of itself in this world, to be with others who have hearts for you, who long for you, who want to be touched by your healing. Lord, we're here because we want to change. We want to grow. We want to heal. We know that you see us in our wholeness and as you created us, yet we also know our utter dependency on you for healing.
for healing by the divine physician. So Lord, we pray for just that. We pray that this time is a healing experience for me, for Brea, and for everyone listening. So together as sisters and brothers in Christ, for all those who are gathered, that we can rest and abide more fully, more deeply in your sacred heart. In your name we pray, amen.
Brya Hanan (04:05.217)
Amen.
Lindy Wynne (04:06.951)
In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. So Brya, I know that you have so many pieces of your story that you could share as testimony and goodness, especially because your deep spirituality and your desire for God to touch your heart and heal you and be with you. So I just invite you to share whatever piece of your story that you feel most called to share.
Brya Hanan (04:29.038)
Thank you. Well, thank you so much for having me. It's such a gift to be here and to do this with you. It's so bizarre to think about LMU and meeting you there, just how far I've come and the time when you met me, that was actually kind of a darker period in my healing journey when I felt more of the absence of God and wasn't sure just even how to confront a lot of these things that I've been able to mean now.
But really where my story begins and maybe what I feel most comfortable sharing today is I like to begin with kind of the generations that came before, because I think that's a really big piece of all of our stories of, you know, our parents and our grandparents. And in my upbringing with my family, there was a lot of brokenness. No one
still to this day practices Catholicism. So faith was not something that was a part of our lives. And there's a lot of divorce and just, I think a lot of things that people haven't had the skills or resources to confront a lot of wounds and that just gets passed down, passed down. And so my mom is a child of divorce.
Lindy Wynne (05:51.622)
.
Brya Hanan (05:54.424)
parents divorced when they were when she was in middle school, I believe around that age. And that was a really hard time for my mom and kind of led her on this trajectory where she really yearned for a family and to restore that the family that was broken. And so she sought that through of beginning pregnant at 16 with my father, my biological dad.
and they had me. And I think for a long time I felt like that was my story, like just there, that I came from kind of this wounded child and who made a decision way too early to have a child and I wasn't really wanted, maybe yes, but not for
Lindy Wynne (06:25.437)
.
Brya Hanan (06:52.62)
reasons really to that were directed towards me. It was really about my mom, think, something and kind of using me as a way to get her deeper needs met. And that was kind of felt early on as I look back at my childhood. But I see that my story is much more than that as I do this work. And there's a lot of layers and things have come to know. And so from there,
Lindy Wynne (07:18.533)
.
Brya Hanan (07:22.402)
You know, my dad, I've learned since then that my dad just wasn't able to really, I think, care for me in the ways that my mom needed. He, as being a 16-year-old himself, wanted to pursue stability and go to college, and my mom didn't want to follow. So for a long time, I felt that my dad had rejected me or abandoned me.
But really, think I've learned since then that it really was just the product of, you know, tough circumstances and he had to make a tough choice. And unfortunately, that led to kind of the breakdown of our family from a very early age. And I didn't grow up with him. I didn't really experience him. But I did experience a stepfather or another man who came into my mom's life very early on, and they ended up getting married at.
Lindy Wynne (07:51.917)
.
.
Brya Hanan (08:20.174)
19 years old. And so that was my experience of a father. And he was very good to me, but came with a lot of complexities. We now have two kind of children raising a child. And he also had his own set of wounds and things that he hadn't healed. And so I was now exposed to his family.
And his family was an alcoholic family, very dysfunctional in their own way. And his father actually ended up molesting me. And so that became a big part of my understanding of self because from that experience, I started to form really deep lies about who I am. And so from a very young age, I felt like I'm not enough, there's something deeply wrong with me.
And maybe I didn't have always a language to articulate that, but I could feel that in my body and the way that I showed up, very quiet, reserved kind of kid. When naturally I'm actually very outgoing and bubbly, I kind of shifted and changed and became a lot more quiet and reserved. And I still to this day, have this kind of habit where I even kind of awkwardly position my body in some ways that are
Lindy Wynne (09:16.197)
.
Brya Hanan (09:42.734)
kind of showing that reservedness across my legs and kind of like it's just hard to sit still and stand firm and feel like I can be seen and take up space. So my body was really communicating that early, early on. And I think from there, it really is just the grace of God and the Lord inviting me into a relationship with him that kind of helped me to get out of that.
my parents started to explore religion and faith when I was eight years old. the molestation happened when I was around five years old, so three years later. And so that was a huge moment or experience for me of, wow, there's something out there that like loves me unconditionally. I can feel that and sense that.
I was very just intrigued by faith and religion and spirituality. And I had a best friend at the time, too, who was very religious, who spoke about God very profoundly at eight years old. And it was it was through her witnessing, too, that made me more even more curious. And so then I would start to go to youth group with her and kind of get exposed to all of that. And in middle school, I had this beautiful encounter with the Lord through adoration when I could really feel
Lindy Wynne (10:38.148)
.
Brya Hanan (11:07.33)
his presence in my life for the first time and feel this deep call to intimacy and to relationship. And I will say like it was such a gift and I think it provided such fruit that is even, you know, born today. Like what you see in me, what you shared so beautifully in beginning is really this, the Lord's presence, right? Showing himself to me and me saying, yes, Lord, I want this.
And it's been able to have such a huge effect in my life. And it's just this deep seated place that I can always return to. It's always there in me, which is such a gift. And there was so much going on at that time too, that I couldn't fully rest in that. I knew that the Lord had come into my life and I wanted that relationship and I could feel it and sense it and experience it. But
I had so many different experiences outside of my intimacy with the Lord that were so confusing, so hard. And, you as a child, you're trying to process all of these really hard family dynamics and experiences. You're trying to also work through this huge identity belief that you're not enough without any resources or language. I didn't have really anyone to talk to about these things. And kind of what I...
Lindy Wynne (12:11.49)
you
Brya Hanan (12:31.054)
talk about in my own inner healing model is, you know, we have this protector that steps in pretty early on to kind of support us. So it's our survival instincts. And I had some really strong ones. And one of those is being kind of the good kid and making sure I do everything right and really trying to earn a sense of worth and value. So I was able to kind of survive a lot because I was able to
Lindy Wynne (12:35.474)
.
Brya Hanan (12:58.542)
produce. I was able to do well in school and sports. I had a lot of friends and I was, you know, always trying to be the best friend. And so there's a lot of things that could kind of distract me that could pour into and do well and then feel okay, feel a sense of adequacy. And so that kind of helped me get by. And then I would say it wasn't until kind of the
Lindy Wynne (13:26.163)
you
Brya Hanan (13:28.244)
end of my senior year where I had this huge experience. Well, there's two kind of things that kind of happened in that same year. One is a feeling of betrayal. And there was something about that experience that completely rocked me. And it was just like a high school boyfriend and we had broken up and he wanted to kind of continue our relationship.
further and engage in a sexual relationship. And we both were waiting and that was really important to us. And so I was about to give that to him as thinking that that would be a way to kind of secure our love. And, you know, and at the time we weren't even dating, but I thought maybe that would make us have a relationship. And at the moment we're about to, he leaves the room.
Lindy Wynne (13:59.322)
you
Brya Hanan (14:27.958)
and I'm just left there all alone. And it's that like shook something in me. It was, and I can articulate it now at the time I could not articulate it. All I could feel at that moment was this intense emptiness and despair and rejection. And I had no idea what to do with those feelings. Didn't know how to sit with them to even work through them, name them. All I knew is to
Lindy Wynne (14:53.898)
you
Brya Hanan (14:54.594)
to keep moving forward, which is what I had learned to do. But this time it was like a rebellious moving forward. Instead of doing everything right, I felt like that didn't really do much for me, because here I am in this position. I want to start doing it in a way that where I feel more, it's like a false empowerment, right? Sense of empowerment. So from there I made a vow.
that I would never be in a position like that again. And so I kind of basically just started partying and doing kind of getting into different things that I had never thought that I would. Like it was totally out of character. I remember even consciously making a phone call like, okay, I'm ready to party with you guys. Where are you guys going this weekend? And everyone was so excited because I was the good girl who didn't drink or didn't party. And so that was a huge shift.
And it was in that experience that led me to even more brokenness, as you can imagine, right? That did not fix me or heal me. It only made things a lot worse. And it ended up bringing me to another relationship, another guy who was a little bit older than me, out of high school. And he ended up raping me. And so at the time, too, I didn't have language for that.
Lindy Wynne (16:16.641)
.
Brya Hanan (16:20.97)
knew as I was alone and something was taken from me, I was felt powerless and rejected as well. in a different way. And this way it felt like I had rejected almost myself like and also felt like because I didn't, I couldn't separate to
God's love for me, felt like God was also rejecting me too. Like my sense of self was projected onto God. And so I felt like this huge.
of sorts where I felt this huge separation and didn't know what to do with it. And that really rocked me. And I think from there, it was just really trying to find a way back to God, but not knowing how and back to a place that I knew so well. Like I knew the Lord's presence and his goodness and what kind of healing could feel like.
Lindy Wynne (17:13.409)
.
Brya Hanan (17:26.962)
but I just didn't know how to really return there. And I went on retreats and continued to participate in my faith and went to LMU shortly after. That's where I met you. as you know, Wendy, I was engaged in my faith. I still went to Mass and participated. I was campus minister and just following campus ministry. But there was always this sense of emptiness or something that I couldn't touch. I didn't know what to do with.
and a sense of dividedness. And so I kind of lived like that for probably the next six years of just kind of trying, trying, trying, but kind of going or when I returned to myself or returned to like, how am I actually feeling? It was like a sense of emptiness and nothingness. And so I knew that there was probably something really off there, but couldn't again articulate it, didn't understand.
Lindy Wynne (18:06.464)
.
Brya Hanan (18:25.844)
And then also when I went to grad school and we had to go to therapy, I felt like I didn't even need it. That's how much I couldn't articulate, understand what was going on and really identify how much I healing. I was just kind of living as if this was like normal to be kind of divided in and kind of cut off from these deeper parts of myself. And also like emptiness just became a kind of like a normal thing. And so.
When I started going to therapy, remember not knowing what to talk about and just feeling very disconnected. one of the things early on in my therapy experience was that she would point out how dissociated I was. I would say something that was really hard and then I would be smiling or laughing. I couldn't feel much of anything. So I was kind of the first kind of...
practice that I started to learn is just how to feel emotions, to feel my pain, to feel the brokenness, and to let my body kind of match also what I'm saying, become more aligned, integrated with what I've gone through. So there's a lot of early on, I think, learning how to do that and to realize like the things that I've gone through were really hard and to make space for that. I think I just kind of
adopted this attitude of like, you just keep going, hard things happen to everyone and you just need to move forward. And I think it was a time when I could actually see like, yes, that's true that hard things happen to everyone. And there is a sense of having to move forward, right, to carry on. But there is something really healing about letting ourselves hearts break for what we've experienced.
Lindy Wynne (19:53.664)
.
Brya Hanan (20:18.696)
and mourning, also the losses that come with what we've experienced, like the loss of nurture and protection, the loss of pursuit, these things that I didn't realize I wasn't really given or I didn't get the experience that impacted me and that kind of led to some deep wounding. And so that process really, I think, was a big shift and change for me. And then I could start to bring that to the Lord because I had identified things
that I could actually name now and articulate. And so that became part of my prayer and my experience with God. Now I can bring this to Him to help me to heal and experience, re-experience Him too. I think it was also like a return to self because I think I had abandoned myself throughout that process or of wounding of an experience. I didn't know how to be with myself, love myself, care for myself.
And so as I started to reclaim and have a sense of self and restore that, then it also became easier to also experience and feel again and also feel God's presence. And I know it's not all about feelings with God, but it was just so healing, restorative to go, yeah, that feeling of being taken care of and that felt sense of feeling, securing you, I can access now because of this kind of inner work that I was doing.
Lindy Wynne (21:17.471)
.
Brya Hanan (21:45.452)
That's kind of the big meat and potatoes of my story. as you know, Lindy, I get married shortly after and have kids shortly after. And I wish I could say like then it was happily ever after from there. But that's never our stories, how our stories work. If anything, it only brought up even more things I had to really explore and name and look at. And I think that's kind of the gift.
Lindy Wynne (21:47.71)
.
Brya Hanan (22:13.838)
and also the curse of marriage, but mostly a gift. My husband really gave me a mirror to also continue to do this deeper work and to look at myself and the things that I was holding within myself and those deeper wounds, but also the self-protections. Those are a huge part of my story of how I've learned to survive and cope. That was way
Lindy Wynne (22:16.926)
.
Brya Hanan (22:43.182)
further from what God wanted for me in my life and has kind of kept me in a cycle of woundedness because it's so controlling. It doesn't leave room for God to work, right? So yeah, that's me. I'll pause there.
Lindy Wynne (23:04.839)
Well, Brya, I think everybody knows why I love you so much now that they've gotten a chance to hear from your beautiful and humble heart. It's deeply, deeply moving, Brya. And Brya, were you on a podcast with Dr. Bob Schuetz? Okay.
Brya Hanan (23:08.462)
Hehehehe
Lindy Wynne (23:23.43)
So he was the guest in the first podcast of the Lenten series. And this series is called Heal Everyone. And if you haven't heard that podcast, I encourage you to go back and listen to it because, Brea, I think a lot of what you're touching on and what I'm about to ask you is gonna tie into that. When you talk about getting married and having children and how all of these things kind of continue to bubble or surface, bubble up or surface,
Dr. Bob Schuetz talked about we heal throughout our entire lifetime and hopefully by the grace of God because if we're not healing, we're probably in that cycle of woundedness or going maybe backwards. I don't know if that's appropriate language for psychology, but yeah, essentially. And so for you, I'm so deeply moved by your humility to say, so here you'd think like, okay, maybe that it'd be all happily ever after, but that's not the way it happens for any of us. that is true, what you just said. And that's why
Brya Hanan (24:03.765)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (24:20.378)
We're here and that's why there are almost 300 podcasts of Mamas in Spirit and that's why our souls are so, I believe, drawn to this because the Lord is in this, is the divine physician, because we need healing. We always need to go to the well of living water, to the divine physician for healing. And so when you talk about, Brya, like all those deep wounding experiences that you had early on,
coupled with like continued life and the dating experiences you had and whatnot. so experiencing healing from that and let's start with first your identity. Because when you talked about the experience when you essentially were about to give yourself fully to your boyfriend and he left and you paint a picture of that moment. I felt that moment for you. I mean, that is...
It's so heavy. It's so sad. And my heart breaks for you. And would you say in a sense like that was one of the moments in your life where you most felt
what you are not, like meaning that if you are created as a beloved daughter of God, and you have this daughtership, this inheritance, we would say in our faith from God, to me that would seem like the opposite. That moment, is that the case?
Brya Hanan (25:38.478)
Mm-hmm.
Brya Hanan (25:50.018)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And it's interesting, I use the word portrayed. I felt betrayed. And I actually have other experiences before that with men, with parental figures, where I felt, feel that feeling, but I don't know how to name it and feel it until that moment. It's like, it all comes crashing in.
Lindy Wynne (26:13.477)
Yes, and to think even about your experience with your grandfather and then also your biological father. All of these different experiences that you have. And this in itself is such a testimony to you being here today talking about your faith and where you're at, all this glorious healing work that the Lord has done. Because these are the kinds of experiences that I imagine a number of people gathering
gathered here today have experienced things like these. Some of these experiences I can relate to, even though all of our experiences are different. And I think that realistically and tragically, we're in a fallen world, is that a number of children, many children have horrendous traumatizing experiences that do not teach them who they are by God.
Brya Hanan (27:03.31)
yeah.
Lindy Wynne (27:07.459)
And that doesn't take away from your experience or anybody else's experience. It's just that loneliness is that that you spoke to. And I can relate to that feeling of loneliness. And I imagine many of us gather can relate to that feeling of loneliness when we share. Hopefully that also touches upon that to heal that loneliness because this woundedness is something that I think we all share in some way in our human experience. Yet sometimes these experiences are so
So intense. So first let's talk about your, your identity. Brya, was there, was there a time in your prayer life, in your relationship with God? Like it sounds like as you sat with a therapist, that the therapist was able to help you to, to start perceiving things differently, seeing yourself differently and started like chiseling away at that so that the real you could, could come out and be free, be free.
Brya Hanan (28:03.19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (28:07.939)
Are there also any experiences or experiences in prayer that you had or any other experiences with the Lord where you really experienced yourself as God's beloved daughter?
Brya Hanan (28:19.266)
Yeah, absolutely. And that's was so maddening is because I would have these beautiful prayer experiences, even in the emptiness and loneliness. I would still frequent the sacraments and I'd have these experiences, you know, right after receiving the Eucharist or in prayer in front of the blessed sacrament. These profound experiences where I felt the Lord restoring my identity and calling me as beloved, like even that word beloved actually came.
and through my experiences at LMU and being exposed to Henry Nauin's work at silent retreats that I would go to. And so it was, I had so many experiences when I could feel the Lord inviting me in and trying to restore my identity and feel a sense of consolation, but it was so short lived. couldn't, there was something blocking it from really, you know, really taking root in me.
Lindy Wynne (28:51.87)
.
Lindy Wynne (29:19.752)
How did that change?
Brya Hanan (29:21.878)
And I think it was when I started becoming more aware of the wounds and what was blocking it. And then working with the therapist and with the Lord to chisel away, to be more conscious and present to my life and making more conscious choices. Because I think, I think what would happen to you is it was like I'd had these big moments in prayer and then I go back to my life and
it was all participating in the cycle. Like, right? So I'd feel great and like, yes, Lord. And then I'd have a trigger or some kind of experience that told me, see, you're not enough, right? You're no good. And then I would believe in that, right, for a second. And then I would kind of use that self-protection to help me to work through that feeling of not enough because I didn't notice it and that sense of shame and inadequacy. So that looked like, you know, control and
Lindy Wynne (30:12.485)
.
Brya Hanan (30:19.694)
trying to be enough and work hard to be enough. Or it looked like I started to get into a survival techniques like dissociation or just completely disconnecting from my body. Or like becoming kind of lazy, like not doing anything, right? So I can think of like times when I'm just scrolling or on TV or just watching TV for hours.
So just kind of like decaying away. Because like almost like I, okay, I surrender to this belief and I'm just going to let myself waste away. So then you'd see kind of a cycle, right? And then I have to wait till this really powerful experience again in prayer to feel energized or feel alive. So yeah, I had to do to I think I participate in the healing work that was being presented to me.
Lindy Wynne (31:06.809)
.
Brya Hanan (31:15.35)
and then start to make conscious choices. I'm doing it again. Let me try to do something else instead that would be a lot more healing and helpful. So instead of distracting myself from this feeling, let me sit with it. Let me journal. Let me take it to God in prayer. Let me cry and mourn whatever was coming up. And so that I think was the big shift.
Lindy Wynne (31:38.829)
Okay, thank you so much. Yeah, everyone, that took me a minute. And now I feel like I understand more fully. And so what I'm hearing from you is so beautiful, because it goes back to that example of when you said, okay, so when I got married, it wasn't like it was all, know, a vat of roses or whatnot, because you talked about work and healing work, and that takes the gift of time.
Brya Hanan (31:43.18)
Hehehehehe
Brya Hanan (31:54.35)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (32:01.674)
So what I'm hearing from you is long-term healing. And I love that so much because we all need that. And so often I think in our culture, the culture we predominantly all share together in regards to like our modern day culture, our American culture maybe, is that quick fix and that instance being satiated instantly yet.
Brya Hanan (32:21.782)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (32:28.883)
sometimes and maybe often times like true healing, true change takes the gift of time and even a long time and even a lifetime. And that's what we were just talking about a few minutes ago when I mentioned Dr. Bob Schutze because that's what I want to ask you about too, Breanne. That's so helpful what you just shared. And I hope and I imagine everyone is just like taking this all in because how beautiful to think instead of running away from brokenness.
Brya Hanan (32:39.438)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (32:57.539)
from woundedness, from suffering, to sit with it and to be with it. You talked about prayer, you talked about journaling, you talked about crying, like grief. And I can identify with all of these things that you're saying. And it's so beautiful and touches my heart so deeply because I feel like you're sharing things that could potentially bless all of us and everyone here gathering with deeper healing. To be able to, this is my next question.
to be able to love and to be loved more fully because, Brea, what Dr. Bob Schute said in the first podcast, I asked him in the end of it. I said, okay, well, you kind of let the cat out of the bag that like I'm the same age as one of your daughters. And so for everyone listening, like I am always, I am like always like hungry for wisdom. Like God speaks directly to us and God also speaks to us through other people. And I think we know
when it's the voice of God or we're being pointed fully towards the Lord. And so I wanted to know from Dr. Bob Schutze, I'm like, I want to know what would you tell me like if I was your daughter? And he basically said for me and for us to spend our Lent removing the barriers to love and to be loved and to know our belovedness.
Brya Hanan (34:02.99)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (34:20.411)
and I have been married almost 25 years. It'll be 25 years this year. And I'm still learning this. Like that's the most intimate relationship for me that I have and I've ever had in my lifetime. And it's also the relationship where we experience like every part of each other and hopefully by the grace of God, learn merciful, unconditional covenant love, covenant love. And so, Brea, for you,
Brya Hanan (34:44.158)
Yes, yeah.
Lindy Wynne (34:49.303)
through this process in this continued process, being married, having children, your third child on the way, how have you learned and do you continue to learn to remove those barriers to love and be loved?
Brya Hanan (35:02.894)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love what you're saying because healing is an ongoing lifelong journey and it's not I want to also name that it's not something that we have to like always focus in on where it's like a God right like our relationship with the Lord or how we go about life is always to accomplish healing because I do think it's what you're saying it's really about Being able to just learn how to love and be loved that is really what heals us most
And it's being able to experience a safe and secure relationship with God and with others and with ourselves. And so I think being able to kind of see and rest in the fact that I'll probably never be healed fully until I reach heaven and that's okay. And so it gives me a lot more grace to confront these things that still get in the way or a particular trigger or maybe my response that
I'm like, dang it, like I'm doing that thing again that I didn't want to do, right, in response to the woundedness. But really what I've learned to do is to offer or extend the Lord's grace in those moments. So to be able to accept it, you know, I love St. Therese's language around littleness. Like I really see it as littleness, like that inner poverty that I'm never gonna like get it all right and be fully healed and always have.
Lindy Wynne (36:05.431)
.
Brya Hanan (36:28.93)
the correct responses or resources. And even with all this knowledge or things that I'm learning about healing, I will fail and struggle. And so, but being comfortable in that. And so that's been helpful and helps me to rest in my belovedness because I can see that that littleness in me, that inner poverty is exactly where the Lord actually wants me. And there's so much goodness in that too. you kind of, you said earlier like,
you see it as humility. And I think that's a grace from the Lord of like that humbleness that helps us to just rest and be ourselves and to fail often and to still live with woundedness and self-protections and be secure in that. And so it's a lot of it. It's just reminding myself of these truths and being able to feel and experience that and, you know, that sense of grace, being able to extend that out.
to different parts of myself, being able to say, it's okay, of course you fell today. And to try to guide myself back to what I know is true and what is right. And also I think forgiveness is a really important piece in all this too. Self-forgiveness has been a really big part of my journey, being able to acknowledge a lot of the choices that I've made in my life came from me not knowing and...
also just woundedness, like this huge identity lie that I've allowed to govern my life. And of course I would make all these kind of choices when I'm living in that kind of reality. And so then it helps me to extend also grace and forgiveness to other people, which also helps me to love and be loved, right? To recognize that we're all just doing our best in trying to find ways to heal and survive the best way we know how. And I think
you know, that perspective helps me to be more compassionate and kind to myself and then to extend that out to others, which, you know, in the end gives you a lot more peace and security to rest in your belovedness.
Lindy Wynne (38:35.619)
That's so beautiful. And when you said that, there's scripture about we can only give what we've received. And it makes me think of
Brya Hanan (38:42.348)
you
Lindy Wynne (38:46.337)
when we're able to practice self-compassion, like you're talking about, then we're able to be more compassionate with others, especially the ones in our most intimate spaces in our lives because, and this is just coming from listening to you, Brya, so this is a gift and a grace from your sharing, is that it's easier, I'll speak for myself, it's easier for me to be compassionate towards people who are like much more on the rim of my life, like on the outskirts of my life.
Brya Hanan (39:12.425)
yeah.
Lindy Wynne (39:14.261)
but the deeper in and the greater like the trials or you know long-term suffering in different circumstances or things of the sort that can get harder but like if and when by the grace of God my heart is open to to receive the compassion of the Lord to learn to practice self-compassion self-understanding self-forgiveness all of these graces and gifts from the Lord then I can hopefully by the grace of God offer that more freely
to the people in the most intimate spaces in my own life.
Lindy Wynne (39:50.537)
I'm glad you said it. Mm-hmm. No.
Brya Hanan (39:52.59)
Is it cutting out a little bit for you?
Okay, was cutting out a little bit, so I wasn't sure if you were looking at it to you noticing that,
Lindy Wynne (40:01.387)
yeah.
Yeah, so that's really beautiful and that is really helpful, Brya. Brya, know, knowing, I mean, you're a therapist and you work with people all the time and people who are in totally different places and spaces and their healing and in their lives and what they've experienced. Thinking about all of us here gathered today and being in different places and spaces, like, what's been the most helpful to you in your spiritual practice? Because
So everyone here gathered knows, Brya has a deep, spirituality and a deep faith. And we were together at LMU and practiced Ignatian spirituality together and really that daily awareness and dependence on God. And so what has been most healing and helpful for you in your spiritual practice, Brya? And how would you encourage all of us to engage in that too?
Brya Hanan (41:04.226)
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think it really is just time in front of the Blessed Sacrament. It's just so huge because I don't know if, depending on your own chapel and how you access the Blessed Sacrament, what you can do, but in mine, I can really just sit on the floor and be childlike before the Lord. And that's been...
I'm really good to, and you know, I've talked a little bit today about integration and it's so important that whatever we're hoping for, we're also able to feel and experience in an embodied way, right? And so one of the things I'm hoping is to be dependent on God and to fully trust Him like a child and restore that sense of identity and childlikeness in me, right? One of the things that I know to be true is that
I'm a very loving person naturally and very forgiving person and kind of compassionate and playful and bubbly. And a lot of those things became distorted or they were kind of, I think you said earlier, like it's like kind of pushed down, right? We want to kind of help all of that come out naturally through the healing. so being able to sit in a posture of like child likeness before the Lord and like
Lindy Wynne (42:15.444)
.
Brya Hanan (42:34.67)
to the Lord as a child and seeking him as father has really been huge. And then also moving my body in ways where I'm kind of rocking, like I'm almost rocking myself too, has been really big too, because it's a way of also kind of demonstrating and expressing this reality of why I want to be participating in the Lord as a mother and her baby.
And I just feel like that's a big place where a lot of our healing occurs is just the feeling of being held, to be being rocked. We're so simple, like we think we need all these things to heal and to change, but these simple gestures of just being able to, you know, prostrate ourselves before the Lord or to be able to feel rocked and held in His presence, that really transforms us. Obviously, you know, we have to
do that in our work too to kind of remove some of the barriers that we've talked about, right? That block us from some of that deeper healing or for that healing to take root. But I would say that that's been like really big in my life of just kind of those kinds of behaviors or, you know, even like in my home, you know, chapel, just putting a blanket around me and just very like childlike positions and then like laying fetal position and just looking at.
a picture of our Lord and kind creating that way. Yeah, so anything where you can incorporate your body into it, I think it can be really transformational.
Lindy Wynne (44:10.807)
I'm so glad I asked you that question, Brya. That's so beautiful and in such an intimate answer. And it not only touches my heart, but this morning I had a hard morning unexpectedly and very early this morning. And I made some choices to do some things for self-care.
and I did some time of reflection and prayer and then I went on a long walk with our dogs and then I made a little chapel in our she shed. I don't know if I told you that before, Brea, but I have a she shed chapel here and in a she shed that I turned into a chapel and it's it feels so peaceful there and it does feel like being held sacredly like it feels like sacred space like the minute I walk in and
I wasn't raised in a religious family. And so my first experiences of going into Catholic churches in particularly, it's like the sacredness and the presence of the Lord, not knowing about the little red candle and the blessed sacrament. Like I could sense something there that was just the Lord. That's what I sensed. And so anyways, I really sensed the presence of the Lord there. And I went in there after my walk and I sat on the ground.
Brya Hanan (45:14.222)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (45:23.802)
and I just leaned against one of the pews and I just looked up at Jesus. I looked up at the crucifix and I just sat there and it was so peaceful. I felt so held, like you said. I felt so held in that moment. So I'm so glad I asked you that and that you shared that, Brya, because I think for all of that, that is a beautiful...
Brya Hanan (45:43.586)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (45:50.52)
image, a beautiful invitation for all of us, because we are all always children. And like when I said earlier on in the podcast that like age dissipates, like, you know, we have all these ways that we wrapped our wrap our mind around things as human beings and time and in space on this earth. Yet God is eternal and our relationships are eternal. So we're just sisters in Christ. We're we're we're beloved daughters of God, all of us here together.
And so I love that you share those images because it reminds me of that. And I have one last question for you, Brea. What would you most want to share with everyone listening? Like just anything on your heart. Also, you're a mother, you're about to have another child, thinking about your children. Like what do you most want everyone listening to know?
Brya Hanan (46:26.35)
Mm-hmm.
Brya Hanan (46:44.888)
I don't know why this came up, but I think it's really important that we're honest, that we let ourselves be honest. And no matter where that takes us to not be afraid of that honesty, because that's going to lead us into deeper healing and ultimately love, right? To love and be loved. But if we're not honest with ourselves, right? If we keep ignoring that little voice that says, I'm not enough.
or I don't trust you Lord or maybe there's a voice that says gosh I hate going back to my mom's house right for the holidays right all these little voices that we can kind of sometimes hear but we ignore because it's too scary to kind of venture into that or I don't know what to do with that right but that is the place where I think the Lord really is inviting us it's not that
place of honesty and looking deeply within ourselves and listening to those inner voices. And as we kind of follow that and make space for that, I think that that's what also ends up leading us to actually what is really truth, T, capital T truth. And so I just want to, I feel like it's important to say like, to just really let yourself be honest and the Lord
What I've seen too with the Lord is that He is so loving and patient and He wants us to share it all with Him, to really name our if it is mistrust or anger or these things that we could be really ashamed about or our unforgiveness with a parent or anything at all that feels like it's so hard for me to name and be honest about. The Lord has shown me
Lindy Wynne (48:30.929)
.
Brya Hanan (48:40.896)
And I think through my work with my clients, like he wants to hear it and he wants us to really name those things. And then as we do, right, that's where he starts to bring us into the deep waters and where we can really start to experience deeper change. But we have to kind of start there. And maybe that honesty doesn't have to be about like admitting some really big truth. Sometimes it's just about like honesty and just your body. Like I am noticing, like I keep feeling
discomfort in my stomach every time I go to my parents house or go to mass or something, just being starting there with just like, how are you feeling? Like really, like in your body, what are you noticing and just starting there?
Lindy Wynne (49:25.565)
I love that, and that it's not just like a quick, this is the way I feel, but to really attend deeply to our bodies because we are embodied souls. Brya, Brya, so much wisdom, so much goodness. You are amazing, Brya. You are amazing. And how can everybody find your book to purchase? How can people get connected with you?
Brya Hanan (49:30.776)
Mm-hmm.
Brya Hanan (49:47.852)
Yeah, so my book is on all platforms where books are sold, so you can find it that way. Amazon's probably the easiest way to access it. And you can find me on Instagram at BreaHannonLMFT and then my website breahhannonlmft.com. And I also have lots of resources there. And if you're listening to this during Lent, I have a little Lenten resource bundle for free.
Lindy Wynne (50:13.007)
Wonderful. Thank you so much. I encourage all of us to go sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament as well. That's beautiful example you gave.
Brya Hanan (50:16.462)
that you could just put your email in and download. Actually, I don't even think you need your email address, but it's just my little offering for you during Lent, but you could always use it. There's other practices in there that you can use outside of Lent as well.
Lindy Wynne (50:41.497)
Just to remind you, the name of Brya's book is, Befriending Your Inner Child, A Catholic Approach to Healing and Wholeness. And Brya, would you be open to closing us in prayer?
Brya Hanan (50:52.042)
Yeah, sure. I love integration work, so just take a couple of deep breaths first.
Brya Hanan (51:01.518)
Bring that breath from your belly all the way up towards your lungs and chest. Gently hold it there and slowly bring it back down towards your belly.
Brya Hanan (51:16.014)
So you could do that one more time, inviting the Holy Spirit in with your next inhale.
Brya Hanan (51:31.758)
to spring ourselves before the Lord and the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Lord God, we just thank you so much for this experience to be able to encounter our own stories. We know Lord that you are working in our lives, that you heal us. You're constantly inviting us into this deeper relationship with you, where we learn to love and be loved. And we ask
that you just bless everyone who's listening. And we just ask also that you bless Lindy and just her, the spaciousness that she creates here so that women could feel heard and seen. We just thank you for Lindy's gifts. And we just ask that continue to this podcast so that more and more women can encounter you, encounter their stories and experience deeper healing. And so we just pray.
All of this really in the spirit of gratitude, in your most holy name, Lord Jesus Christ, amen. In your Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, amen.
Lindy Wynne (52:39.621)
Amen. Thank you, Brya.
Brya Hanan (52:41.311)
Yeah, thank you.
Lindy Wynne (52:43.692)
And thank you everyone for gathering. You can reach out at mamasinspirit.gmail.com or go to mamasinspirit.com or wherever you like to listen to podcasts to hear many more faith-filled stories and these sharings of the heart and the soul that by the grace of God are transformative because they crack us open, they crack our hearts open and they point us to the one who loves us most. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.